SPEAKER_01: 0:00

We can talk to humans, right? Like you and me can talk. Do I have any control over you? No. And if someone else is imposing control on another being, that to me is not ethical. And so animal communication is about the relationship, but it's not control.

SPEAKER_00: 0:27

Hello everyone and welcome back to Reinforce the Horse. Today I'm with Catherine Luna Sowell, and Catherine is an animal communicator and quantum energy healer for animals with certifications in the Tucker Biokinetic Technique, Seven Claire Gifts, Emotion Code, Reiki, Mystery School, and Experience with the Masterson Method. She also created her own method of psychosomatic healing for animals called the Antidote. Catherine, hi, welcome to Welcome back to Reinforce the Horse. I know we've had you on in the past and we had a wonderful conversation. I'm so excited to have you back here. And um yeah, really, really happy to talk with you today. How are you?

SPEAKER_01: 1:16

Hello. I'm good. I'm so happy to be back here. And it's so wonderful to see your beautiful face.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23

Likewise, it's amazing. It's been some time since we've had a podcast. So you are actually my first guest back in some time. I'm so excited. It's really exciting. So I am I know you've had a lot going on in the past, really since the last time we talked, there's been a lot of evolutions in your work and in your life. And I'm really curious to hear about your the method that you created called the antidote. Can you give us a bit of info information on what that is and how it came to be?

SPEAKER_01: 2:00

Yes, I would love to. Um the antidote is my version of psychosomatic healing for animals. So when I look at a horses or a dog's, a cat, whatever animal I'm working on, whatever species, it's like their sacrum or their imbalances or just their energy around them will say, hey, this is the issue I'm holding on. This is the belief system this comes with. This is the emotion. Uh this is the story I need to release in order for these vertebrates to align. It's like, oh my goodness, okay. So the first part is identifying the story. Awareness has the power to shift so much. Hearing the story, listening to them, having that voice and feeling heard and seen also takes away that emotional charge that you could say from the experience. And when we get that story, let's say the belief system was I'm bad. This is actually something I see show up in performance horses often, thinking that you know, in their developmental years, that if they didn't do something right, they didn't perform correctly, they were bad. And so I'll go in, and usually that is gonna be found in like their lumbar, their sacrum area, right where the saddle pretty much sits. So you I go ahead, clear out that belief system, clear out the root of maybe it's the emotions or the experience, and there's just kind of some energy dislodged in there, clear it out, and I go, what is the antidote to that? I am good. And we get that in there, we drop in some I am good, I'm pure, I'm holy, I'm worthy, I am deserving. Um, whatever that animal needs in that moment, and it is unique to them. They're gonna have their own language, their own frequency that resonates with them the most. And so my job is to stay the clearest vessel and conjugate can't channel in order to hear what their problem is and what they need, and the antidote is my way of getting to the root cause and fixing it completely in that moment. Because the art of neutrality is that when something becomes neutral to us, say we've gone through a negative experience or a trauma, um, even a poor relationship with someone, if we no longer want that situation of trauma to have power over us, the goal is to get to neutrality. And you don't get to neutrality by abandoning abandoning your victimized part or uh ignoring those voices or uh disowning your own shadow. You have to go to those places, be able to sit with them and help them realize that even in their darkest points, we're all still made of light. So, something I will do to explain how to go from a very extreme, dense or dark type of uh experience into okay, how do I heal this? How do I make it neutral? How do I let go of it? And this was for humans, and then this is what I do for animals. Um, but it's the same process as if you were to hope o no your worst experiences. Have you heard of that? The hope-ono prayer? Oh, you're gonna love it.

SPEAKER_00: 6:10

No, I've not heard of it.

SPEAKER_01: 6:11

It is a Hawaiian prayer, and it's I I may mess up the order, but I kind of go with what I feel is best in the moment. I love you, thank you, I'm sorry, I forgive you. And you just repeat, and the alchemy that it offers, like, oh my goodness. So, um, if my I would say an experience where I really had to let go of myself and ask for my divinity to take over, because my human self was like, I can't get myself out of the situation, I don't know how to do it. I was um, I felt very betrayed by someone I valued. I really, really had high hopes, and it the situation felt more like betrayal when it kind of came to a close. And so sitting there, I had to realize the only way to make this neutral and drop in the antidote so that it doesn't have power over me in the future is to pretty much just hope I own away. So this can be, you know, if you have gone through an experience where you know there's an abuser. I love you, thank you, I'm sorry, I forgive you. And the point is to do that to yourself. Because we can be kind of mad at ourselves for getting ourselves in this situation, there might be a little self-blame, you know, as humans, maybe a little self-hatred. Um, so it's going back to our darkest parts, our most victimized parts, our most abandoned parts. And thank you, I love you, I'm sorry, I forgive you. And that as many times as you need to cite, as many days you got it, as many what you just continually find ways to love and call home those parts of yourself deeper and deeper. And that is what I do for animals. So I will hold space and sit with their darkest parts, their saddest parts. Um, I I think I love it so much with a lot of um very, very kind horses, and this is kind of the same wound that shows up in humans as well. Um, we think that feeling anger would make us a bad person. Or if I get angry, I might be bad. Um, anger is an emotion that radiates through the whole body. Not all emotions do that, and so what's scary about anger is it actually makes us feel like we don't have control of ourselves, and that's usually because in Kundalini Yoga, you may have even done one of these practices, but there's an exercise where you punch the air in a rhythmic way with breathing, and that is because as anger runs through our body, that's how it needs to be released. So that is why so many people, you know, well, I'm so mad I gotta punch them, and it's because the body is like, oh my gosh, I need to release this, this is so overwhelming. So there recently there was a saint of a horse I worked with, and he had gone through a lot of unfair experiences, and so he's like, I'm I'm just so mad, I am livid, because injustices did happen to him, and I said, That's okay, let's feel it, and just the acceptance of like, oh, okay, well, I'm not that mad anymore. I feel so accepted, thank you so much, you know. Oh, or oh, there's no you're there's no judgment on this. I don't need to judge it. No, you're good. What boundaries do you want from that? These ones, okay, cool. I'll tell your mom.

SPEAKER_00: 10:26

Yeah, holding space for him to feel his feelings and know that he's being acknowledged and know that those feelings are like he doesn't have to suppress them for any longer.

SPEAKER_01: 10:42

Nope. And so that's gonna give you that level of healing, that depth, is going to show up in so many situations that you wouldn't even think, because if there's not such an intensely charged root cause belief system or emotion in there, um let's say, let's just use a spook as an example. He sees something, let's say he does his biggest spook ever. There's no longer that very, very dense and overwhelming trapped energy within him. So it's like his new baseline has improved significantly just because there's no longer that intense deep fear. There is a level of security and safety in the body now by calling those parts of himself home and being whole, that he brings it into his every single moment.

SPEAKER_00: 11:42

I'm hearing that there's a sense of you helping him tap into his true, his true self, his his sovereignty to essentially be able to heal what is needed, like the the darkness to bring balance into what needs to come out of his being into more light and more love. And before we started this conversation, we you mentioned to me a bit about the balancing of the masculine and feminine energies, and that that uh I've been thinking about that as you've been talking about this method. Can you talk a bit about how consciously balancing the masculine and feminine energies go into this work?

SPEAKER_01: 12:37

Yes. So when I look at the body, I see the left side is feminine and the right side is masculine. So let we're let's say we're working on a horse. If they are carrying more weight on their left side, and it it's different for everyone, so this is more just it's a good example, that can let me know that there is an imbalance with the masculine side not carrying enough weight. And this can be metaphorical, this can be physical, but then I'm gonna break it down into even smaller particles to get to that root system. So I think if energy is smaller than even a subatomic particle, I mean what you look through in a microscope, smaller than that, you know, and that's where I'm working at the root cause. That's where I'm it's not an injection, obviously, but that's where I'm putting in the antidote so that we can heal out that super root cause. Um so the body's story will tell me things as far as okay, so you you need to feel safer. You know, your masculine side isn't holding enough weight for you to feel fully balanced and safe. Okay, what do you need to feel safer here? And the very complex part of the work is, and I learned this through my own journey, um, learning about the soul contracts and the very complex energetic dynamic between the human and the horse. So seeing that imbalance in the body, I will address it in multiple ways for the animal. And if the animal says they need this, if they're like, hey, woman, give this to my mom, they will share some insight of how their human can step into their own sovereignty so that the animal is no longer needing to reflect the issues back to the human to get the message across. So I will hook each individual up to their own sovereign self, and it happens very naturally, but honoring the dark and the light sides of each of these beings so that we can transmute that darkness and realize, oh, wait a minute, I'm not that bad. That was just kind of my judgment of myself. Oh, oh, whoa. Very mind-opening, very um takes a lot of weight off the heart, and a huge amount of self-acceptance and self-love and self-compassion um plays into all of that. So I see the animal's energetic patterns or blueprint reflecting back to the human their own issues. And I say issues and I know their solutions, so that's why I think of it very I'm so hopeful about it because I will then get that human to the resources that their animals like, hey, can my mom have this? I'm like, absolutely. And the personal journey and transformation that comes along with working with me has continually blown my mind. Um, I have clients who uh you text me at six in the morning and go, I think I talked to my horse last night. And I'm like, hmm, of course you did. Um, I have a really cool client. She is all the way on the East Coast, um, you know, saying, Hey, I just spoke with a spider, and it thanked me for not killing it. I'm like, absolutely. Um I I couldn't expect the results that I get. I think it's so exciting. Um, one animal only wanted me to work on its left side, and I just went very intuitively, let me respect your boundaries. I always ask for consent. Three of my principles that I always work from are asking for consent, honoring free will, and do no harm. And that's very much just kind of what I do my best, what I do my best to live by. Um, and the animals really, really appreciate that kind of emotional congruency. I'm just gonna get all over the place here. Um, but that is the emotional congruency is kind of your level of presence that you're able to offer the animal. So, how can you be in control of anything if you're not, if you can't even control yourself? And this means emotionally. This is talking about nervous system regulation, emotional regulation, emotional intelligence. And when you have embodied those light and dark dark parts of yourself and worked through them to find, you know, the victimized child that needed to be loved in order to transmute into now a more balanced state where um your dark isn't that dark. You know, maybe you can even find the beauty in your dark. Um, you know that you can be fully in your dark and you're not gonna harm anyone or yourself. You know that you're gonna find the light and you're gonna transmute this, and it just reminds me, it's like it's like being in the dark will let you actually see how much light you truly are. Because I feel like when we listen to all those wounded parts of ourselves, we start to say, Oh, you know what? Girl, I love you, thank you for sharing that. But I just realized that's not the truth of you. Like you actually are worthy, isn't that cool? And this part is like I'll come home, sweet, and so it's just it's so much fun and it's so unexpected, and it's so complex, and with the human-animal dynamic, it's very important for me to work on the soul contracts that we have with our animals so that we're not destined for suffering and sacrifice, that we can learn true sovereignty and empowerment through joy and pleasure, through fun experiences and miracles, through blessings and healthy relationships. So it just needs a rewiring, and that's some of what I do in the antidote.

SPEAKER_00: 19:25

That's beautiful, and so that I'm I'm hearing so much in this. There's a sense of acknowledgement for the animal and or for the animal's emotions, acknowledging what they're going through no matter how deep and dark they feel like they're go, no matter how deep and dark they feel like their experiences, and then helping them work through injecting a positive or inviting in a more positive like uh anecdote into what is needing to into the wound that is needing to be healed, and inviting that medicine to go and heal that somatic part of that body, and then also bringing a sense of balance to their energetic, their energetic being. I mean balancing their masculine and feminine, and also allowing them to like express to you what they need in their relationships or their connections with their person, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01: 20:36

So improved connection is one of the results that continues to blow my mind. Um, the horse that only wanted me to work on his left side. I had I had originally gone there to work on the stay apparatus to help him with suspensory ligament issues. That was my goal. And when I get there, he goes, No, I don't want that. I'm like, okay, what do you want? And he's like, just work on my left side. Okay, sounds good. I work on his left side. I was not told he had any behavior issues before this. Um, he's a good guy. I'm in there with him working on him, you know, he's a good guy. And I do my work, I go, you know what, I'm gonna trust that what he said about his boundaries of just wanting to be worked on one side is in honor of his nervous system. And the nervous system can only receive the amount of healing that it really feels safe with. So as a nervous system feels safer, and that is how talking to those let's say dark parts, but the parts of them that they kind of abandon allows them to really come back home and be in their body and feel safer. So it's like each layer is that addition of safety, and for this guy. That was all he needed for the day. I'm like, sounds good. Thank you so much. About two hours later, I get a text from my client, and she goes, he's like a different horse. He's not penning. He's happy to see me. He's focused. I'm like, I've only worked on half of them. Like, I wanted to work on all of them. Um, and I could have never expected that. And it was just, oh, I mean, I had I had, you know, happy tears because I get so excited for my clients. I really see their success with the animals as my success. And I just light up about it.

SPEAKER_00: 22:44

Wow. So just after one session, he was able to like he felt safe enough to express a better, more a better positive, lighter, like more engaging version of himself to his person.

SPEAKER_01: 23:03

Yes. Yeah, and by coming home to his body again, which is where that somatic piece works, um, or I'm sorry, comes into play. And then the psychosomatic part of it is listening to that story, hearing that story, you know, no abandoned part left behind. Um, and for him, I mean, when I I look at an animal, I get my notebook, that's how I channel through the best, and I will have 20 pages written down in my notebook from a two or three hour session. And it, you know, it's incredible the amount of information that comes through. And I don't know what is the piece that is the is going to offer them the biggest shift. So I just want to show up fully and be in full service to them in that moment, and so I just let them talk. Just tell me whatever you gotta say. I will write it down. Let me know what you want me to tell your mom. Um, let me know what you want to just be between us because you're working on it. It's it's incredible. And I think I think many healers can relate to this, but the depth that a healer goes to heal on their own wounds is the depth of healing you can offer another. And I also say this when I'm speaking about how we connect with our animals, but the level of connection we have with ourselves is the level of connection we're able to have with our animals. And that's how I see the personal journey and transformation guided by their animal coming together to work magic like my logical mind couldn't under, couldn't understand, couldn't expect.

SPEAKER_00: 25:03

Yeah, connection I feel this on a very like energetic level right now. Having the having the courage to go deeper within the self and healing our wounds. It it takes a lot, and I know you and many of our listeners, and I I mean we're all on our journeys, but it it's not easy to look in with look within ourselves and say I want to heal. I'm going to take the step and and and heal. And then the healing journey is this massive experience of light and dark, and light and dark, and the waves, the ups and downs, and it's it's really beautiful to me that you brought up the that the connection, like or the ability to go within and heal is reflected outwards to how we experience our connection with our animals.

SPEAKER_01: 26:12

Yes, yes. Um I think it's gotta be just kind of imprinted or a blueprint in my soul, but going within and looking at every aspect of me, dark and light, generationally, ancestrally, everywhere. It's kind of my obsession. I'm all about it. I I for six years I didn't really understand why I was so you could say hell-bent on looking at every part of me and healing every part of me, and it is eternal, right? I mean, I'm an eternal student, I'm not gonna be done, but it's balanced out so much more, and I I feel that my divine self put me through six years of studying this work and integrating it and embodying it, and that's why I'm able to offer the level of healing that I am because a mentor, a teacher, or a healer who has embodied the work offers a level of presence and authority, and this is authentic authority, you know, not authority like society might say, but authority meaning safety, you know, I'm a safe person, or you know, kind of like Cafe Vera. You're I got inner peace in here, that you know, the external's not gonna waiver it. I got this, this is mine, I created it, and now I am safe within myself, and so I can offer this level of emotional congruency, and my presence has that value because I brought those pieces home, and that is what especially our horses, but all animals look for in their leader. Like, let's put quotations around leader because I'm so not into the like the leader. Oh my gosh, so against the dominance and whatnot, and the leadership, I'm like, I'm gonna have to preface that. But I think of it as the true alpha or the lead mare. So in the wild, the lead mare, and I'll get to the true alpha first, or a second, sorry, but the lead mare is not going to be what we have thought as the most aggressive one or the bossiest one. She is going to be the one who has the most inner security and the most in tune with her natural instincts so that she can feel her entire environment and go, okay, danger to the east, let's go to the west. It is being in touch with one's sensitivities and vulnerabilities that is actual authority. And it is actual safety. Because if you can be vulnerable and sensitive and aware and energetically in tune, you are the most, I was gonna say most knowledgeable, but I hope it's just the most in tune with your environment and not just physically. So, yes, your lead mare is going to set boundaries because that's what healthy relationships do, but a silly example of this is a wild horse is never gonna wake up and say, Oh boy, today I would love to put on a mask and pretend to be something different than my authentic self, right? How would that serve them in the wild? It's not good, you know, not good. No. Humans, however, do that often. We go, hey, what mask am I gonna put on today to um, you know, get X, Y, and Z, whatever the goal is. So that lack of congruency or kind of lack of integrity with oneself is what an animal looks at in a human and goes, that's kind of fishy. That doesn't feel so safe. Uh there's a discrepancy there. You know, I can see inside you're vulnerable, you're a little scared, you maybe have some anxiety, but outwardly you're showing me puffed up chest, um harshness, roughness, and kind of this egoic set. And this animal's like, which one are you? You know, who am I? Who I don't get it. Um, I also describe emotional congruency as well. I asked this question, are you the same person to your animal if they get the question right or wrong? So if your horse does not do what you want, are you going to now maybe it's not consciously, but now are you going to go? Oh my gosh, I'm so upset I'm taking that personally. Um, you know, ah, how dare they, you know, and it now get defensive. And to me, I call that kind of like a predatory state when horses are peacekeepers. They're just giving us messages for us to either work on ourselves or to help them. They in in all situations, they are figuring out how can I make the situation better.

SPEAKER_00: 31:58

Taking a horse for for as an example, they they're these thousand-pound beings with so much power. They have so much power, yet they don't want to control us as humans. There's such this, I feel like this dichotomy in the world that I hope is coming more and more into love and security and kindness and like recognization of what the horse collective is going through so that we can hear them. But like I totally feel what you're saying about like that emotional congruency, like being being emotionally stable within the self to be able to see and acknowledge a no just as much as a yes can be seen and acknowledged, and then doesn't that help bind a connection between two beings, whether that's humans or a horse human or a horse to horse?

SPEAKER_01: 33:06

Yes, yes. Um, I mean, even in a let's give a you know, what would this look like in real life? If you have built a relationship of consistency with your horse that has shown them I'm a safe person, whether you get the answer wrong or right, I'm a safe person. It's okay, it's gonna be okay. Am I going to um look for a different way to explain something? Yes. Am I going to, you know, find, okay, uh, you don't want to turn to left today? Oh, probably because your C4 through C7 neck vertebrates are out of alignment. Let me help you not be in pain. Oh, two days after processing, you love that direction. I mean, it's all messages. I really I don't see it as defiance. Um, it's all, I kind of say conflict is an invitation for connection. And I love that you brought up control because with animal communication, I think that it is an abuse of power to go against an animal's consent if they say, Hey, I don't want that sharing. Or um, you know, hey, my nervous system's at capacity today. You know, I know you'd like to do my full body, but please don't. You know, and I am so sensitive and honoring of that that you know, they don't they use they don't have to have that conversation with me. It's like, oh, I just felt a little shift. Hey, do you want me to keep going? And I ask yes or no. Okay, cool. Thank you so much. Love you, bless you. Like, you know, and then their soul has their own processing and transformation with animal communication, it's not about control. It's very funny when someone says, you know, oh, my horse just won't get in the trailer. You know, can you tell them to get in? We can talk to humans, right? Like you and me can talk. Do I have any control over you? No. And if someone else is imposing control on another being, that to me is not ethical. And so animal communication is about the relationship, but it's not control. And I think that is a level of congruency and safety that when you embody it and you're in that flow and you can be sovereign and surrender, that is really what an animal is like. Oh, I feel very safe in your presence. Let me talk about these wounds from weaning, these wounds from year two. Um, that one time I didn't get as much hay as I thought I was, and I felt neglected. Like, okay, cool, let me hold you. A lot of our animals, and this is with humans as well, but experience something as a core trauma or core wound, and it's not what we would have logically thought of, like, oh yeah, I remember that experience. That's what happened there. Because just like humans, maybe something just hit the wound just right in that moment, and all you need to do is heal it. Get the antidote in there, hear the story, get the antidote, be present. Your presence is value, and it can shift. So it's it's a lot of allowing the divine to work through me as a channel and letting go and surrendering and seeing how surrender is the most effective way for the deepest level of healing to be received.

SPEAKER_00: 37:16

I'm kind of speechless right now. That the use of the use of that word, especially surrender, has been coming up so much in my personal life. It's one of those things that I've been contemplating, like, okay, what does that mean? What does that look like? What does that feel like? And in listening to you talk, I'm kind of being brought to like remembering m certain times with my herd, with Willow, where she would tell me, like, hey, I'm afraid of that. And as, you know, in in a training session, as as this, you know, as a trainer, it's my job to help teach her that said scary thing is not gonna eat her, but in a polite way that also acknowledges her to in a lot of ways surrender to and surrender that fear in the way that she knows that she's being held and supported so that eventually the scary thing isn't isn't so scary anymore. It takes a lot not to force them to let go, and by them I mean horses. Using this analogy, there's a lot of control that is often used that just shuts them down rather than allowing them to feel and let go and surrender to the fact that A, I am afraid. And then with the acknowledgement of I am afraid comes the confidence of wait, I don't have to be afraid because you are holding space for that fear. Am I tracking my ideas right?

SPEAKER_01: 39:09

Yeah, and with the acceptance of it, you go ahead and transmute it, and then you bring in that antidote and embody it.

SPEAKER_00: 39:20

And then that embodies that embodies your being and then it embodies their being. Yeah, and suddenly it's like the darkness just fades.

SPEAKER_02: 39:32

Yes! Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 39:37

It's beautiful, and as we make as we make the changes within our own energy, it's like we have given them an instruction manual or a blueprint for them to look at, and they go, Oh, okay, cool. So now I'll go ahead and release those things. Oh, okay. Mom's no longer holding um extra tension in her right shoulder. Okay, that was the belief there, that was the emotion, that was the experience. Okay, okay, okay. I am worthy, I'm deserving of love. Okay, transmuted. Oh, okay, I'll let go of it in my shoulder now. Seems like we're good. Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 40:19

It's so beautiful how they mirror us as well, like how they and you're seeing this in your work, how like both human, the the human and the horse involved are like so connected, energetically connected in that way, which brings me to my next, I guess, uh idea of again before we started the recording, you mentioned having a an interest in uh in energy research and how that is how that is evolving in the scientific way. So I'm curious to hear your thoughts about that and how it is related to your work.

SPEAKER_01: 41:07

Yeah. Um I think that research in energy medicine could offer us, well, it does offer us solutions to what Western medicine can't detect yet. So I have so many examples, and it's so fun because I know before we even spoke about the different research that's actually going on um things at UCLA in Sweden they actually have worked with biotensors. I hope I'm saying that correctly, um, to measure the energetic field. And at UCLA there was a neurophysicist who I wish I could remember her name right now. Um let's link it. Link it somewhere so she can get credit, um who was able to correlate numerical values with aura readings, and scientists call the aura the biofield. We can also talk about it as the electromagnetic field. And if you think about the health and well-being of a be of a body, the more dense or lower vibration it is, the more easily it can get sick. Um it attracts kind of the same vibration. And when we think of density, you can also think of like that's gonna show up as like stiff muscles, A T bones, um healing, raising the vibration, putting those antidotes in there. That's kind of like WD40 for everything. WD40 for the body, for the mind, for the heart, the soul, the spirit. Um, my business is called Divine Grace, Animal Healing and Communication, and it really is, it's like, okay, Divine Grace is that WD40. Um, the one I work with just happens to be quantum physics instead of actual WD-40 that you can pick up at Home Depot. Uh and it's organic, shall I say. But that is how we move through that body and release those densities. And when I do work with the emotion code, this is a great example. There are plenty of places online you can just Google it up, say like frequency chart of the emotions, and it's gonna give you an actual hertz value for the different emotions. So you could do joy, acceptance, um, shame is gonna be about your lowest. And shame is about 40 hertz, depending on what you're looking at. Acceptance, I can't remember the exact hertz, but it goes up increasingly as you get more positive and light. And the higher the vibration or the frequency is, the more in alignment you are with optimal health. You're happier because there's not that much density in there. And happiness is just the after effect of coming home to yourself and put getting those antidotes into those where your heart might be hardened a little bit, where your bones are creaky and sticky, where you're carrying more weight on the left side of your sacrum rather than more balanced. You can see this in um very achy hawks. You're gonna see things show up in the neck and the whole body that have a story to be told, heard, processed, validated, and let go of, and the antidote fills that space with that higher vibration, with the higher numerical value that's gonna be more inlignment with a happier and healthy life. Um, one of the things that we're beginning to talk more about, which I love, is how soul contracts can affect our animals and our relationship, and we can go from a more negative type of contract with the suffering and change it, transmute it into the love and empowerment through ease and joy. And that shifts our entire reality into such a higher, I mean, we say frequency and vibration, and it really is. I think everyone has experienced energy in their life. Um, there's a couple exercises, like even just taking your hands together and rubbing them to create friction. When you get a little heat in there, when you get that friction, you pull it apart and just kind of I can feel it right now, just like this. That is energy. Yeah, warm those eggs up, and then kind of go back in and just like that's energy right there.

SPEAKER_00: 46:33

Yeah, I can totally feel it. Like I I can totally totally feel it.

SPEAKER_01: 46:39

Yeah, I then I'll do it, and then I'll put specific intentions in it, and you can feel how that's gonna change it, change the frequency, the vibration of it.

SPEAKER_00: 46:50

So and then putting in okay, so using this energy that is able to be felt here, it can be directed anywhere, even if you're not standing, like say if you want to direct it to um if you want to direct it to a horse with a with a uh like stiff howks or something, can you direct it while you're sitting in the comfort of your own home and it still reach him?

SPEAKER_01: 47:18

Yes, absolutely, um, and that is something that I learned years ago from my own experience with quantum healing, and I did used to work on animals only in person, and then I realized, especially with um being hypoglycemic uh and just really needing to balance my blood sugar, but I was able to work so much more in-depth remotely, and it also allows me to help so many more animals, you know, from west coast to east coast internationally. You can healers and past light workers, you can work your light globally now. We have access to so much more, it's so rich and wonderful. Um, and so I use the hand rubbing exercise to just kind of show how accessible energy is, that it's right here, you know, it's not a woo-woo term, it's right here, and we can learn how to work with it, or we can not work with it, and then it kind of controls our own life. But the animals I work with are always asking their humans to step into their power so that the energy is not really controlling us, we're now co-creating. We're now going, you know what? I would actually like a little bit more love in my life. And we they take them on that journey to show them how, and it's through healing, it's through getting the antidote to the hard parts, it's calling everything home, balancing internally. Um the research and energy medicine I would like to do in the world is to increase the quality of life that we can provide our animals. So I've seen this in multiple ways. As far as I'm actually working on a horse tomorrow who has cushions, and the sweet girl has been tested about every other month for six months for cushions because she has consistently needed to increase her dose of percent, which is the pharmaceutical medicine they give to horses with cushions, and that tells us right there, hmm, something's not working optimally. And what I can do with I use the Tucker Biokinetic technique to work on organs, and then I apply the antidote wherever it's needed. Um, but I can actually work on that thyroid so I can remotely from anywhere in the world, I can tap into that animal's energy field, and I've worked on multiple animals where I looked at the thyroid function and I'll feel it, and I go, oh, are they hyperthyroid? Yeah, how'd you know? They've been having a hard time losing weight, are you putting on weight? And oh, because this thyroid feels like wheel. And then if I if I'm on a hypothyroid, uh, you know, it's it's not functioning as fast as it sugar is in flow, fast is not the right word, but that's how I feel it. It's kind of like the slow, sludgy molasses, and I'll go, okay, what is your optimal at a hundred percent working? What do you feel like? And I get this beautiful flow, very much grace, you know, and then okay, what are you today? And it's like or I'm like, okay, so I will work with a few acupressure points. I call them like source points or major pin points, and you connect with the body's innate wisdom to heal itself, and this is part of the Tucker Biokinetic technique where you connect those, you can call them voices, they're you know, whatever, with the parts of the body and say, Hey, remember how you actually have everything within your being to be able to rebalance and connect with yourself. Let's go ahead and bring it over to this part of your body and let's just see what happens, okay? And so I connect them, and it it is so cool when I'll get through maybe half the skeleton, and the animal goes, thanks for the reminder. I remember. And so now we're working together on their skeleton, and I can feel them. It's almost like if my hand were to be now guided by them, um, even more physically in a way. But now I can feel them go, oh yep, they just clicked into that, and the session goes from maybe my first one takes three hours, and then and it's always different, but maybe the second one it takes two hours now because when I click in, the animal goes, Thanks so much, let's do it. And it's just zooming through there, and they can start to just like that instruction manual or energetic blueprint. Now they can start to also self-heal. So everything I do, I want to fix and heal at the root cause, and I also want to create self-sustainable healing. I want to empower owners, moms, cahoos, dads, whatever you want to go by, because healing is something that should happen all the time, not just intercession. So I'm gonna show up fully and be fully in service, but I also want to offer tools and resources so that we can continue to heal and really reach optimal healing, optimal well-being.

SPEAKER_00: 53:07

So you mentioned uh sustainable, uh sustainable, like creating a sense of sustainable healing so that it continues. Is this more in the line of like teaching the person, their handler, their mom, their dad, you know, whoever is the owner of the animal to help them heal, or more in the way that instructs the animal itself to be able to continue this healing after their sessions? Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 53:40

Oh. So because of the depth I have gone in my healing, and I say this with the humility of knowing that I will always be able to go deeper and that I will always be healing because I want to be in the greatest level of service that I can, but without sacrificing myself, which I think is this kind of like new blend of healed healer type of mindset, rather than thinking we need to give, give, give, it's giving from a full cup. So my energetic blueprint, my extraction manual is going to offer the animal tools and resources. So that there was a Mustang that I worked on, and Mustangs have incredible energy, but if they've been domesticated and gone through the trauma of a roundup or a gather, they have they have pretty much the same trapped emotions to release from every single roundup. And it is terror, panic, horror, forlorn, lost. Um a stallion who is then gilded feels so deeply responsible for um not being able to keep their herd safe. And so that's really that kind of that will create a hard shell, as you can imagine. I mean, I got goosebumps all over, but that creates that hard shell, and they're like, no, I don't, I don't want to receive energy, I just want to numb myself. And in that session with that particular Mustang, by me showing up with my blueprint and my energetic um instruction manual, I was able to remind him that he is safe to receive and to remind him remind, but it's not just mental, it's a it's an integration, it's an embodiment of this remembrance. And so I helped him embody. Oh, the earth is literally Mother Earth here is literally here to help me heal. All this garbage I've been holding on to, I can release it through my little Legos. I can just let it roll off me. Um it's amazing when when I asked my horse, who I have now, Lily, when I asked her, how do you forgive so well? She was so dang cute, she was only like five months old, just this little infinitely wise, gorgeous Mustang, and she goes, like this, and she just does a little shimmy, you know. And this is in my mind's eyes and not um her physical being, but like this, and it just dropped immediately into the earth and transmuted, just like little shimmy, and it's like that's oh wow, and seeing that and learning how to embody that and going through those processes is what allowed me to in very difficult situations where maybe I had been hurt, or um maybe someone intentionally wanted to hurt me, or just we go through these life experiences, and you know, in some parts, everyone's gonna have their own perspective, so we can in some parts it can be like, oh, maybe I was a villain in that person's perspective, or you know, oh I was a victim there. There's so many ways to look at it, but just look at that and hope o no it, you know, get in the antidote. If I'm in a situation where I just keep coming back to this one memory because it was so difficult, and I thought, okay, if I don't let go of these stories with these people who have abused me, I'm afraid that it's gonna be with me my whole life. And I just honor myself more than those stories. Maybe I'm that, maybe I'm so so mad about that stuff, you know, and with anger, it's like anger has a message. You don't want to stay in anger, but it has a message, and usually it's to set some boundaries, and not in a mean way, but in a very self-loving way, and a way that helps maintain healthy relationships, so that instead of things getting bottled up or built up, it's like the absolute antidote of that is learning I'm safe to use my voice, and I can even use it gently, and it's respected. Um, and so this I did I have been through trauma in my life, and so I'm using this example with um forgiving abusers because it's it was a heavy lesson. It was a heavy, heavy on my knees outside with the horses, looking up at a full moon, saying, There's gotta be a higher purpose to this, and it just turned into hope of owning the abusers and realizing maybe they abused because at some way they felt very, very victimized. You know, they must have felt fear as well, and this is such a topic. I mean, we could do a whole thing on this, but if you can do that and get to a space of neutrality, and it doesn't mean that you let these people back into your lives, but you let go of the energetic story so that you are free from it to move forward instead of holding it and it's your story forever, and maybe recreating the trauma because that's no fun. It's really this um deep inner alchemization of really tricky stuff, and the easiest way to get through it was what's the antidote? Okay, I'm feeling rage. What's my antidote? What's the opposite of rage? Let's do joy. How could I change this to joy? Ooh. Well, if someone in this experience it was kind of a business type relationship, but oh, if that person felt that way about me, that means they saw my power. That means they saw how magical I was. Oh, confidence boost. How cool is this? Thank you for teaching me how powerful I am. I love you because I realized that I myself maybe have been through experiences where I felt afraid, and it comes from a place of needing to be healed. So I love you, I love myself, and it's okay if it takes time on um being able to say those things, and it feels very in flow because really, if you say it to yourself, since we are all connected and we all are one, it is gonna transmute. And it might not work on the logical mind, but it gets there, and so it is a practice, and whenever it's the hardest thing, antidote. What's the antidote? Integrate the antidote into my body, drop it in, embody it. Okay, live that way now. But you have to identify and be aware and go through the process and not abandon the parts of yourself that you're afraid to look at because you can't call an abandoned piece home by abandoning it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:30

So I I love that in so many ways. Just it it sounds like it's a journey through acceptance. So accepting what is, accepting, say in this case, like a dark feeling, a dark, a negative experience, something that we humans would clarify or classify as negative experience, accepting that it happened, accepting that it is in all of what it is, accepting that our bodies still can feel that, and then taking it and giving it somewhere else to be, letting it letting it go and healing that part of the body through the antidote, through the the healing, the medicine. Do you feel like the earth helps to I guess take back or take away or heal the the negative?

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:40

Yeah, yes. Um, I love that this kind of brings us back to the science component. Um, but grounding, Mother Earth, feet on the grass, there's grounding blankets, there's all wonderful things, right? Um even like I use a back-on-track blanket sometimes on windy days because the magnets also have the same grounding effect on our energy, but it is the negative ions that actually help us release. So I want to leave um the listeners a few tips before we close up uh the podcast. And one of them is so simple, it's so easy. All you have to do, a magnet will work also, but all you have to do is get a stainless steel spoon and just rub the bottom of your bare feet for maybe 30 seconds each. And then if you want to go ahead and do your spine, you know, do the do your root chakra, your the your lower back, and you're changing your energy by bringing those negative ions in, and it actually just calms all those particles. It's very cool. That's cool, super easy rounding. Just carry a spoon around with you. I love it. And I will do that. Go ahead, sorry.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:08

No, it's it sounds like such a it's a creative way to like I guess bring out the the negativity, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:19

For some people it's it might it's easier or harder, just everyone works differently. It's like learning um different learning styles. But for some people, if I say, okay, let's bring up um like that beautiful kind of terracotta-y, like red clay dirt color, let's go ahead and bring that up through our feet, through our ankles, up to our knees, okay, all the way on those sit spones, you know, up in this root, they can feel that. So the feeling is that embodying part, and that will work for them. And some, it's like, nope, that doesn't even make sense. No way. And that's where the spoon trick is so dang easy. And with an animal, if I do the emotion code, I also um I will use a magnet or a spoon or just my hand, but even if you're not doing the emotion code, an easy way to ground your animal's energy is take that stainless steel metal spoon, and if they'll tolerate it up on their pole, you're gonna go from the pole down their spine. I would do it maybe an inch or two off of their spine so it's not right on top, and you just go around slowly and follow it to their tail, go on down, and I like it to touch the dirt because that for me is I'm really bringing it to Mama Earth. I'm saying, hey girl, help me out here, you know, grab get this, and then I will I'll just do ten times ten swipes there. You can even do the other side, and it really shifts them. Wow, it's very cool.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:58

That's awesome. I would love to see that like in action.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:04

Yeah. Yeah. If I oh my gosh, absolutely. If I show up at the barn and I see an uh a dysregulated nervous system, or we're gonna be like a little spooky, our eyes are a little wider than normal, I will instantly clear their energy, ground their energy, and then I have a couple nervous system regulation tips that I will also use. Um when I was going to school at Davis, I used to deliver baby horses um at night. I would sleep in a barn and deliver baby race horses. It was so much fun, oh my gosh. And um, Dr. Madigan, that is where he created his method um called the Madnequin squeeze. And it's the same, not exactly the same thought process, but it has the same nervous system regulating results that maybe a Thunder Buddy jacket has for a dog, if you've ever seen those, where it really hugs that nervous system, compression wear for children with autism. Um, I I use these like daily, some kind of I'll use a shape wear, it's so easy. Just get some compression on that nervous system, and so I have my own way of using I've done it with a lead rope in an emergency or something like that. But if an animal's really, really worried, I will go ahead and do that same nervous system hug on their body with like lead rope, or I actually get super soft cotton rope in a good safe measurement, and I'll wrap it around them. Um kind of, I mean, where you would have your girth go, and then up and above in like a circle, and in one very extreme situation, I had a horse who was terrified. I put on my version of the Madigan squeeze, and there was a 40% increase in his level of calmness. I mean, it took it took a low, I mean, and I was with people at the time where like, I think we need to sedate him. And I went ahead and I did this, and it was like being so empathic, it was like, oh, and he was like, I'm back in my body. Holy shit, that was so scary. And then I and that was as soon as I did it, as soon as I got that tension on there, he was like, and so I'll just I'll you know, I'll leave it on for an hour and regulating our own nervous system, and this is again where that complex human-to-horse dynamic is so important, but I'll regulate my nervous system. We see this in different techniques out there too, like the trust technique, and then you do this very naturally with your animals, um, just like I do, but I've been learning to put the language with it, and so when you get around them, to me, what's respectful is to calm my system, pay attention to the rate of my breath, pay attention to my heartbeat, are my feet on the ground? Can I feel the surface of my feet touching the ground? Now I can be present. And when you, as the person who controls the most of their life environment, are saying it's calm and it's safe, that takes away like 80% of the fear from them. That's the same thing as that lead mare or the true alpha going so deeply into herself that she quiets all of the voices and only hears the divine truth and says, Predators to the east, let's go. And it's not, oh maybe it's over there, I don't know, the south down, oops, don't know. It's uh that's the authentic power where it's it's kind of superhuman, but human, yeah. You know, it's I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:30

It's uh it sounds like it's a it it sounds like it's where we're supposed to be as humans, and we're starting to come back to what it means, and I mean starting to come back to like in our modern day, we're starting to come back to what it means. More people are starting to see what it means to be sensitive, to be empathetic, to be allowed to feel sensitive and empathetic, and sharing that gift with our animals because our animals are naturally like that. They they have a higher state of at least has been my experience, they have a higher state of empathy and feeling and sensitivity in their bodies, just in their bodies alone than we do. And they I feel like they're teaching us humans collectively how to like how to hear them, how to and then it helps in our relationships with other people as well, because how can we have a positive connection with another human if we can't have one with ourselves, and many animals help bring us back to the truth of what is ourselves.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:46

Exactly. That is a huge theme in my work, exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:51

It's beautiful, it really is.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:55

The journey home.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:56

Yes, the journey home. You're amazing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:59

You're amazing! Thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:04

It's been such a wonderful conversation with you. I feel like every time we connect, it's divine timing, and it's always such an amazing conversation. I love listening to you talk about your work and your animals and all the wonderful ways you're going about helping to help so many animals and bring peace to the world in such a profound, beautiful way.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:34

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:35

Thank you for joining me today.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:38

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:39

As we wrap up, is there anything more that you would like to share with our listeners before we end the recording?

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:47

With considering going back to school for a DVM PhD path, something I thought was very fascinating was I was working on a client and I said, What is the most important thing for me to know about your physical discomfort right now? And he said, hypermobile. Like, okay. And there are there is information uh out in the e-coin industry about horses being hypermobile, especially if they've been bred for really large, um, graceful, exaggerated movements. Now, I wasn't exactly sure what he was asking me to do with this hypermobile. So I'm like, okay, what do you want? There's a veterinarian here on the West Coast who I've known for about over a decade, and I feel very confident if I need to refer a client out to a veterinarian because he does such a thorough exam. It's Dr. Marty Gardner in Ion, and he he's a wonderful guy, and he makes this is probably the wildest thing that a horse person might hear, but he makes going to the vet educational and fun, which is amazing, what a gift. And so my the horse I was working on said, I gotta go to the vet. He gave me images of the hospital and the ambulance, and I'm like, okay, what do you want? What do you need? And he's like, If I go over to the vet, I'm like, okay, uh, you have to haul in in order to go to Dr. Gardner. And I spoke with owner, I go, hey, he's bringing up the vet. This is a veterinarian. And my client wasn't sure if she wanted to go specifically with him or if she wanted to do something that she had found out about through people she spoke to. I said, No worries. And her horse said, It's gotta be Marty. I'm like, okay, I feel like as my job being a channel and a conjure for my client, I need to remain as neutral as possible. So I said, Hey, I am getting that. If we go to this veterinarian, we're gonna get a lot of help. He's gonna be able to compliment the work that I'm doing. It's going to be in the best interest for your horse. But since you are interested in these other veterinarians, let's go ahead and ask your horse what percentage that these people are able to help him at. And for one week got 60%, and then one week got like 20%. And then for the one he was requesting, we had 100%. So I go, hey, these are the numbers that I was getting. What do you want to do? And so we did choose to go with uh the we honored the horse's choice, and the night before our appointment, because I worked on this horse, he was having incredible results, but I knew that we needed to go here. I could just I just knew it. And you know, I'm not gonna do injections, I can't do x-rays, and so I really see practitioners and professionals working together as the holistic approach that's gonna make sure every aspect of the animal is fully taken care of. Um the night before I go, hey, what do I need to know? And he goes, Eilers Danlow syndrome. Like, cool, what's that? Give it a Google. I'm not familiar with all the terms, and it's pretty much a connective tissue disorder, so it's with the cartilage in between the bones, and before he well, he said that, and then he gave me like an x-ray view of the cartilage in between the bones, and so I'm looking at it and I'm looking, I can see his different. Sorry, I'm seeing his different vertebrae there, and I'm looking at what's between it, and I'm like, okay, interesting, like collagen and cartilage, okay. But it just felt like, yeah, there's a little piece here that we're gonna have connected. So when we went to the veterinarian, I realized we were agreeing on the same thing. So Dr. Gardner, genius, said these horses, it's in the reigning industry, these horses are a brand for flashy movements and flashy colors. That is what's going to get you higher points in the shopin. So that is how breeding has kind of you know taken over the industry is how can we score higher? However, that doesn't mean they were for the animal's best physical attributes. You know, it's like in cutting horses. We would love to see a horse with a good solid foot, but in a lot of the bloodlines, we actually got smaller, smaller feet, which with the surface area and speed they're covering, you want a bigger foot. You know, you want that surface area. So Dr. Gardner explained he has hypermobility, and I'm like, that makes sense. This is what this horse has been talking about this whole time, and that he had created a um having those tissues compromised, he had a right shoulder injury, and that happens a lot in the reigning industry. And so for me, I'm like, hmm, how does this connect with Eiler Stanlow syndrome and how does it connect with energy medicine and how I could better serve the animals? And I realized if with what the veterinarian said and the information I was getting, we were both talking about a genetic predisposition to hypermobility that leads to an increased volume of these types of injuries in the specific discipline. So if we were to actually look from my perspective with the medicine, we could look into what genetic patterns are we seeing that increase hypermobility, and maybe we can start to selectively breed differently in order to reduce these injuries and uh lengthen lengthen healthy careers for them. And with the energy medicine, there's so many different avenues of connecting. I'm gonna stop there because I'm just like getting all excited.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:31

No, it's good, it's good. I think it's beautiful, like just listening to essentially how this this horse led you to this path of uh a more rare thing, or what was being before his diagnosis could have been seen as a rare thing, but it seems like it's a pretty common thing with like what goes on with horses that are bred for the same reason he was like just but he he told you how he had this whole conversation with you over his body, and um it goes to show just like how how powerful the energy connection is and the um just opening up the channel for allowing healing, connection, and communication to flow through in a way that is like it very conducive to healing not only this horse, but you know, others others that will come after him and yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:42

I see my perspective of animal communication is that with having done self-healing and continuing and being able to quiet my internal environment, it allows me to hear the frequency of the communication. So, you know, when we're when we're babies and we're learning language, we are applying a meaning or a value to the frequency that we're hearing. You know, that's how we take um frequency into words, that's going to be a vibration, and then applying that value or meaning to it. And so for me, it's kind of just like I learned a different language, and so I can tune into that frequency, and then I can translate it into a denser form, which is words, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00: 1:21:36

Yeah, that makes sense. So it's like understanding um understanding the feeling of the frequency that translates into how we humans conceptualize it. Yeah, is the but I mean I guess the in the communication aspect, the way that we conceptualize a definition or a meaning of something could be different than the animals, right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:01

Absolutely, yeah. We can support animals before the injury happens. This is wild. I when I first got my mustang, little baby mustang, right? Round belly, just came from the wild. Uh her poop was yellow, there wasn't quality hay where she was uh being held, and I take one look at her, I'm like, let's get her tested for worms. So I bring a sample of her fecal to a Western veteran medicine veterinarian, and they say negative no worms. I go, that really doesn't resonate with my intuition here. Well, I also and I will outsource clients to this when needed, but I also work with these frequency waters. So they are waters with and it's not really an injection, but they are infused with a certain frequency to heal something. So I went ahead and did that for my Mustang. The reading came back that she had tapeworms, and I said, okay, let's do the treatment. It's two bottles of the water infused with the frequency specifically for this ailment. On the second bottle, my girl pooped out two giant tapeworms at my eye level. Amazing. So I have continuously seen energy medicine, frequency medicine, this quantum healing world pick up things that Western medicine hasn't, and also pick up things far before they become an issue. Resolve things that there's in quotations no cures for. I mean it's wild. And so making that accessible and making it more normal, part of normal conversation, that looking at things that even smaller than a subatomic level is really going to prevent problems, give provide solutions, and increase quality of life for human and horse. Because we are happier when our horses are healthier.

SPEAKER_00: 1:24:40

I definitely feel that on a personal level, and it's like I think it goes hand in hand. The horses will communicate with us when I mean when it feels safe to do so, they'll let us know what they need, and we have to reciprocate that and let them know what we need. And we we help each other coexist in a world that can often be difficult to exist in.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:11

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:13

The healing is there and the energy is there, and God, the work that you do is amazing. It's it's I I think it's absolutely amazing in so many ways, and your ability not only to provide that help to them, but be open to sharing and receiving questions about it, and just sharing your heart, sharing your heart fully with with me through this podcast and with so many others, just through your work and uh and your interests. It's amazing. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:51

Yes. I would love to leave you and the listeners with two gifts, if I may.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:58

You may, thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:26:00

Yay! So the first um, I want to give a super easy animal communication exercise to people, and this is communicating with them at an even more subtle level than actual words, so you don't have to translate it, you don't have to worry my intuitive enough for this or anything like that. But go ahead and put your hands on your heart, and I like to put my left over my right, that just feels intuitively right for me. And then you take a deep breath out through your mouth. And now imagine one of your horse's hearts, and just breathe into that. I like to think about how cute their little picks are, what their colors look like, and how soft they are right there, and just kind of that little sweet, soft spot while the neck connects into the chest. And then I want to ask you, did you feel a subtle energetic shift when you imagine their heart? That right there is communication on the most subtle level.

SPEAKER_00: 1:27:27

Wow. And it's just it's it's amazing. That is amazing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27:34

You can do that anywhere, you can do that at Costco.

SPEAKER_00: 1:27:37

I love that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27:38

You can do it anywhere.

SPEAKER_00: 1:27:40

It's that's a really fascinating sensation, and I I I do have experience with connecting with my horses in the quantum, uh, if you will, just by virtue of not being there, not in my physical day to day anymore, but that sensation of having my hands here for a moment I didn't feel them on my body, I felt them on hers. And it was like I don't I don't know. It just it felt like there was this distance from what is this what it what are my hands what is what I'm touching is mine and the sensation that I felt this is the sensation on my hands but not on my chest and I just was like I don't know I felt I felt her I felt her there thank you oh my goodness yes I feel um I usually feel just like a very instant calmness and peace and just that deep breath of like oh that's exactly what I wanted like that's exactly what I needed beautiful and then them also being so connected to us are like oh good mom's okay and they feel peace about it too that's so beautiful the second gift I'd love to leave you guys is um for any listeners and of course yourself if you sign up for your first initial in-depth session I would like to honor that as far as if you're like hey I'm interested in these services you can go ahead and apply apply the price of the first in-depth session to any of the packages I offer for sessions so it's it ends up saving you quite a bit of money which we all love a great deal. Cool thank you so much that's amazing absolutely this has been God this has just been such a fun conversation and I've learned so much it's gonna take me a bit to like fully process the conversation as it usually does but it I've had so much fun and thank you so much for sharing these gifts with us and for sharing your heart with us and just for all of the wonderful work you are doing thank you thank you well right back at you of course you're such a wonderful vessel you are too I'm like I'm just I'm so happy I'm so grateful and for all of our listeners thank you so much for tuning in with us today and um yeah and just just listening and helping to support Catherine and her mission and joining us on the podcast it's been uh yeah it's been fun we will see you on the next one